Legal Voices Alex Hall and Sinead Hesp

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The Centre for Legal Leadership

Interviews: Legal Voices Series on 22/10/24

To share their first-hand insights, two prominent university in-house lawyers joined CLL for a Legal Voices interview.

Sinéad Hesp is General Counsel at The University of Manchester and winner of the 2024 Association of University Legal Practitioners (AULP) Leader of the Year Award. 

Alex Hall is Chair of the AULP and Director of Legal & Compliance Services and University Solicitor at the University of Hertfordshire. 

Both made the move to their in-house higher education (HE) roles following spells in private practice.

What attracted you to the educational sector?

Sinéad: I was in private practice and considering the next point of my career. Getting on the partnership track would’ve involved more going out and winning new business for the firm, which didn’t appeal to me.

When I saw that The University of Manchester was setting up a legal team and recruiting an employment specialist, that felt like the role for me. I had worked with clients in the HE sector so knew the legal landscape there and was keen to play a more significant role in it.

Alex: I’d been a commercial litigator for almost a decade and was also at the point where I was asking myself if I wanted to proceed to partnership or do something else.

The private practice role gave me very little time to spend with my family - including my young son – and, having been a school governor for many years, a new role in the education sector felt a great fit for me. And, in a stroke of serendipity, my wife took her school choir to perform at the University of Hertfordshire. I went along as a member of the audience and there was a role advertised there. That’s how I joined my current employer.

What are the big differences between working at a university and a private practice?

Sinéad: Right now, there’s a real buzz around the campus as some 9,000 students are graduating. It’s so exciting to see the procession from my office window. These people and their families are so happy and proud. Beyond that, we have 12,000 staff and more than 40,000 students on campus, so we get to deal with a huge range of legal issues.

The work is high quality and always interesting. That said, it’s a challenge moving from being a fee-earner to a support service. Legal is (rightly) to the side of, rather than at the centre of the organisation and that takes some getting used to for someone coming from private practice.

Alex: A key difference is that with commercial litigation you don’t get much repeat business – it’s more a procession of clients. In my current role, I feel part of something far bigger. Universities are heavily regulated and, with thousands of people on campus, it’s like running a small town. You also have to help others in the university understand how Legal helps them.

Legal functions at universities have only been around for 20-25 years, so our roles are still developing. I would say that you tend to be appreciated most in the difficult times, such as recent student encampments and demonstrations.

Sinéad: Yes, there have been a lot of those in recent months. What's fascinating is that everybody has a slightly different experience, yet we're all dealing with the same law. How each university acts depends very much on the context and the personalities involved. We’ve seen a variety of approaches to difficult situations that have produced very different outcomes.

What’s your proudest moment to date as an-house lawyer?

Sinéad: I’m most proud of the fact that the team I lead is now a core part of The University of Manchester. Each member has a key specialism and has built strong relationships with their internal clients. That enables them to give well informed, highly relevant legal advice and become genuinely trusted advisors across all parts of the university.

Alex: It’s been enormously satisfying to start with a small base and build the legal team for University of Hertfordshire with great people who really want to work there and make a difference.

How mature is the in-house HE legal community in terms of career structure?

Sinéad: That’s very much on our agenda at Manchester - and an issue I’m really keen on. We’re looking at when will be the right time to consider hiring paralegals and/or apprentice solicitors. We need to manage the training and support they’d get while still delivering on our commitments to the university. But I’m sure it’ll happen.

Alex: It is maturing. I’ve had three trainees who have all qualified. However, as university teams are still small, I can’t hold on to all of them. We need to build attractive career progression and at AULP we have a subgroup of our Executive Committee looking closely at what training in the HE sector should look like.

What key skill (aside from legal expertise) is vital for an in-house career?

Sinéad: Communication. Obviously, it’s important in private practice, too, but for in-house roles, it’s important in a different way. In-house, you need to build strong, long-term relationships across the organisation, rather than be parachuted in to speak with a single client for the duration of a specific matter or project. That’s why excellent communication skills are critical for the in-house role.

Alex: Relationship-building skills really matter in-house. In private practice, you give your advice to one or two client contacts and what they do next is really up to them. You don’t necessarily see the full breadth of factors and considerations around a given issue.

In-house, you're enmeshed in the whole decision-making process. You could be talking to any number of people at all levels of seniority and from all disciplines across the organisation. The strength of your relationships with these people will determine how influential your advice is.

How do you see the HE legal landscape changing over the next five years?

Alex: Financially, things are bound to change. Restrictions on visas will impact the number of foreign students coming into UK universities, which in turn will affect overall finances and legal budgets.

I think too that the legal role will mature to the point where, like in many US and Canadian institutions, there will be more senior lawyers involved in high-level decisions. We’re already beginning to see new university vice-chancellors and chief executives who have come from the US or Australia asking why there is no senior lawyer on their executive, so I think this will change.

Sinéad: Financial considerations will certainly be a concern to all universities, yet so too will issues to do with the new government. How, for example, it interacts with universities and education generally will undoubtedly change the sector over the life of this parliament.

Also, the Office for Students (the independent regulator of higher education in England) will have a new chair. This will influence the advice universities give to students on a whole range of issues, including freedom of speech. As lawyers, we’ll have a big part to play in this.

How was the AULP founded?

Alex: It was around the turn of the century – about 25 years ago – when ten university lawyers first set up a meeting in York. At that time, there were very few lawyers in the HE sector, so the AULP started life from humble beginnings. Since then, the community has grown exponentially and the Association currently has around 600 members.

It’s part of an umbrella organisation called Professional HE Services (PHES), that provides back-office services for several sector groups. Universities join PHES and become members of AULP. As well as qualified solicitors, barristers or foreign qualified lawyers, people working under their supervision as trainees or paralegals from member universities can also now join.

I became chair in 2021 and am delighted that we have a very strong and diverse Executive Committee. As well as heads of legal from universities, it comprises specific subject matter experts, lawyers from different types of educational institution, and people from a range of backgrounds. This is so valuable as it empowers us to work for everyone across our growing membership.

What are AULP’s key objectives?

Alex: Recruitment and retention of good lawyers, the well-being of those lawyers and continuing to be the authoritative voice of the higher education in-house legal community. We can't give legal advice as an Association, but we can collate and share the views of a large group of senior and specialist legal experts.

We’re also looking to heighten our visibility and extend our membership so we can support as many of the in-house HE legal community as possible. Going hand in hand with that is encouraging members of all levels of seniority in legal teams to engage in the work we do.

And finally, how do you switch off from work?

Sinéad: As the mother of three teenagers, my spare time is mostly taken up. It’s so important – and rewarding – to be there to listen to them.

Alex: Spending time with family, including my son who is 11 and very busy with various football teams. I also enjoy singing in a choir and playing the piano.

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