Legal Voices: Michael Phillips, Head of Legal, Schroders Personal Wealth

Learn who your fellow community members are and share in their journeys.

The Centre for Legal Leadership

Interviews: Legal Voices Series on 16/10/24

After arriving in the UK from Australia during a banking crisis, landing a job as an in-house lawyer in financial services proved a happy accident for Michael Phillips.

A former PhD student of philosophy, New South Wales council officer, private practice solicitor and senior university lecturer, Michael has, over the last 11 years, built his in-house career at Lloyds Banking Group, Macquarie Group, BlackRock and, since 2020, Schroders Personal Wealth.

How did your move into in-house come about?

I enjoy the advisory side of being lawyer far more than the transactional side. So, when I left private practice in Australia, I came to the UK looking for a private practice role but no one was looking to hire at that time because of the banking crisis and the recession.  But I heard about the opportunity at Lloyds from a mate of mine. Her boss, a Kiwi, was leaving to go home, which created an opening in an antipodean-friendly environment. I got the job and never considered returning to private practice. 

What do you love most about being in-house?

The emphasis on listening, giving advice and being trusted with greater responsibility faster. You very quickly find yourself in the hotseat facing someone who has a problem and needs advice. It’s just you who can help, so you must act and deal with it. This means the role is very varied. No two days are the same and you often don’t know what’s coming your way.

What are the unique challenges of working in financial services?

There was a banking crisis when I arrived and that necessitated groundbreaking work. It’s terrifying and awful to go through, but in the aftermath of a crisis things change. In the UK we had banking reform. This led to me spending the first two thirds of my in-house career doing post-crisis mop-up work.

I transitioned into a regulatory lawyer and found it stimulating to do a type of work that had never been done before. At this time there was a lot of dynamism in the law within financial services. I love that. And now, with a lot of investment in financial services, it’s great to be involved in building growth in the business.

What cultural challenges did you face when switching countries and moving in-house?

I didn’t understand British people! The metaphors, euphemisms and sarcasm they routinely use in conversation went completely over my head. A classic example was, ‘Let’s meet up for a drink.’ To an Aussie this means, ‘Oh, I’m going to see you soon,’ but to a British person it often means, ‘Let’s never meet again.’

I also had to de-learn many private practice behaviours that would have held me back. For instance, I learned that in-house, while you need to give people options, you also need to recommend one of them and put your name on it. You need to speak in plain English and be concise. And you must always consider how ethical your advice is. Would you be embarrassed if was made public?

What motivated you to be a guest speaker in the Certificate in Effective Skills for the In-House Lawyer course?

(run by CLL and The University of Law)

Being run by in-house lawyers for in-house lawyers, CLL is unique in our profession. While many law firms provide CPD (continuing professional development) courses for in-house lawyers, they’re usually one-way scenarios. A presenter speaks, you listen, then decide what to apply to your work.

At CLL events, you’ll often be asked to volunteer and contribute. I like this model as it makes you think about what’s important to you and what you want out of the session. I’d been on many CLL training events and taken great benefits from them. So when I was asked to help with this one, I was more than happy to.

Coming in-house for the first time presents a huge learning curve and this course is one of very few that helps people through that transition.

How valuable is peer-to-peer learning in the in-house community?

Hugely valuable. You've got thoughtful people in CLL who, right now, are dealing with big challenges on the job and working out how to how to meet them. And there are very few forums where in-house lawyers can share their ideas and experiences with each other. 

What impact will AI have on the in-house role?

We’re talking about how we’ll use it and how we’ll need to up-skill – both as users in the legal team and advisors to the rest of the business. I think AI will change legal practice dramatically. I can see tech firms coming to the market with AI-enabled managed legal services. This in turn will force us to segment work that AI can do and work that needs direct human input.

The contract is a great example. Contracts proliferate across organisations, yet they often address the same needs. With AI, you can take huge amounts of data and work out what positions people have taken. You can then set the tool to assess a contract against those different positions, review it and suggest how to improve it. It's remarkable that a tool can now do in moments - and probably to a higher standard - what I spent years doing in the early part of my career. AI could be a real game changer in how organisations spend money on legal resource.

What key skills must in-house lawyers have?

Human skills. Obviously, the technical skills and legal expertise must be there behind the scenes, but skills such as listening, being curious, asking questions and fully understanding people’s concerns are what make your work relevant.

Also, there’s a lot less deference to lawyers these days, which means people don’t just blindly accept what legal says. We need to be seen to engage with people right across our organisations and interact as equals with them. Old hierarchies are breaking down and lawyers are subject to the same social expectations as everyone else, which I believe is a good thing. Also very important is courage. In-house lawyers, more so than private practice lawyers, must be prepared to say, ‘Stop. This is wrong,’ when necessary.

What’s your single piece of advice to a would-be in-house lawyer?

Take control of your career. Unlike in private practice, the in-house role is not an elevator to partnership status. You’ll need to use your human skills to develop your role and plan your future.

Away from work, what hobbies do you enjoy?

I’m addicted to cycling, especially in Richmond Park and along the riverside routes in London. I enjoy detective fiction and I absolutely love spending time with my (very) old French Bulldog.

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